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Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

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Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by Sebastiaan van Doorn on Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:44 pm

i thing the topictitle says almost enough. The winters in the netherlands can be as cold as minus 6-10 degree celsius and most beautifull flowering Passiflora won't survive this winters. That why i want to create a hybrid which would survive those temperatures. Since i've just started collecting Passiflora i'm kinda inexperienced and i was wondering if anyone could give me any tips about the whole process and which plants to use. I have some research on internet and by reading books to find which Passiflora would be possibly be a good choice to use and this where the ones of whichthink are good choices:

P. actinidia
P. caerulea
P. incarnata
P. lutea

is there anyone who could give me a little push in the right direction?

sebastiaan
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Re: Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by EWortman on Fri Oct 01, 2010 1:33 am

Hello Sebastiaan,

So much to say, but I will try to keep it short and to the point.

- P. lutea alone would make a good plant for you to own, but hybridization potential is going to be limited.

- P. actinia will survive, but don't expect it to bloom. It blooms in the late winter/early spring, and with that much cold, the plant will not be happy enough for it to bloom in time. I know from many years experience of -6C.

- P. incarnata and P. caerulea would be excellent both to have and to hybridize with. They are both beautiful, and cold and heat tolerant. One word of warning on incarnata is that it does not like it's roots wet and cold at the same time. The same can be said for most Passiflora, but for us, this has been the biggest challenge with incarnata.

- There are many hybrids already made with incarnata and caerulea which would make fine options for you. I think most of the polyploids would be great. If you can find P. 'Betty Myles Young' or P. 'Clear Skies', you will be on your way. Also, Rob McPhail in the Netherlands created P. 'Connor Cailean', which should also work well for you, and it may be easy for you to find!

I think the main thing is to start collecting ones that are hardy for you and hybridize with what you already have and can grow successfully.

Feel free to email me personally if you wish to discuss this further.

Eric Wortman
www.bloomingpassion.com

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Re: Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by ethan.nielsen on Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:33 am

I agree with Eric, although I think your best bet is probably going to be incarnata, as long as you can keep it dry. I live where winters get colder (-17C), but it's dry here (Utah).

Lutea will also do well for you given the same conditions, but I don't think you'll want to use it for hybridizations. It has tiny greenish-yellow flowers, and I don't think anyone has ever made a hybrid with it (correct me if I'm wrong).
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Re: Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by Igor Lyannoy on Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 pm

I will add just one species - P.tucumanensis. I have both diploid and tetraploid versions and can confirm the plants' ability to survive temperatures down to abt -10C without any problem. I have made the so-called "Intucu" (hybrids of P.incarnata X P.tucumanensis), whose roots have survived this past winter in the ground with -25C for about a week. Althouhg, I am not that excited about this feature 'cause I had to pull out their suckers all around the place all June through. Smile

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Re: Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by Sebastiaan van Doorn on Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:32 pm

i wan't planning on using them all. I thought these ones would work the best cause of their abillity to survive freezing temperatures. A more Bigger problem might be the fact that most time our winters are very wet. We allready had planted 2 P. cerulea, 2 P. cerulea 'Lavender Lady' and a P. alata, and I'll have a P. lutea arriving tomorrow.

next thing would be how to start all this, just grab a clean pensil and start brushing one flower with another one? Or would it be smarter to take cuttings and wait till the beginning of the next summer? and which type of cuttings of the above named species are the most succesfull?

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Re: Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by EWortman on Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:45 pm

Sebastiaan,

I hope you take no offense, but you are not asking a simple pointed question that can be answered easily. What you need to do is a lot more research. Spend some time reading the dozens of different opinions out there. There are a few very nice books available that all Passiflora enthusiasts should own, as well as many websites dedicated to the subject, (here's a place to start: http://www.passionflow.co.uk/passiflora-passion-flower-growing-tips.htm). If you need help figuring out which books and which other websites are best, please let me know.

That being said, I would still be very happy to help you with your endeavors, but you need a stronger baseline of knowledge to begin with.

There is one more thing that I think you need to do: Experiment! Everyone starts in your position, and part of the joy of gardening is the trial and error. Also, I have read many differing opinions on how to propagate cuttings, germinate seedlings, et cetera. They are all just that: opinions. What works best for me in my specific climate, with my tools, my resources, and the amount of time I can dedicate, may not work for you at all.

My overall suggestion: Step 1 - spend a full weekend at the absolute least with your nose in books and on the internet, just reading. No questions.... just read and absorb. Take some notes, too! Step 2 - From the many methods you read about, make some of your own assumptions, and begin to implement either one person's ideas, or many combined to create your own unique techniques. Step 3 - Come here and ask questions to help you fill in the blanks from your research, (ie "I read that my plant labelled as P. caerulea 'Lavender Lady' could not be labeled right. It must be one or the other, or neither. Not to mention that 'Lavender Lady' seems to be an antiquated name. I attached a picture of the leaves, since it has not bloomed yet. Can anyone help tell me what this plant actually is?")

Once again, I sincerely hope I am not offending you, and I actually am meaning to help.

Good luck with your research,

Eric Wortman
www.bloomingpassion.com
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Re: Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by Passif on Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:32 pm

Hi Sebastiaan,

About P. lutea: it is very hardy, but belong to a very small group of species in subgenus Decaloba (sorry to be a bit technical) and I do not expect any cross-pollination to give any seed. BUT this statement will stand only to when somebody proove me wrong.

In my garden, exposed to the wind and with roots away from the house, I have, after 22 years and a few nights at -25 (-13°F), P. lutea, P. caerulea 'Concordia' (a form from Argentina), P. incarnata (from Maryland) and a white flowered P. incarnata (from North Carolina hills) in a great shape. But the P. 'Concordia' dies above ground if there is freezing rain and them do not bloom that year. I have lost very quickly (1 or 2 years) P. caerulea (from southern Brazil) and P. caerulea 'Constance Eliott' that are not as resistant.

Both P. incarnata and P. caerulea have interesting variation in leaf and flowers, but also in cold (and heat?) resistance. They will hybridize with almost all large flowered Passiflora (subgenus Passiflora).

To maximize chances of survival, I would plant them in the garden in May and make sure they do not get too dry the first month.

Also I have good success in rooting cutting only in long days or long artificial lighting period (13-14 hours seems to work best for me).

Good luck,
Christian

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Re: Would P. lutea be a good plant for hybridization?

Post by Juliehoffman on Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:39 am

Hybridization is one of the most intriguing, fun & yet frustrating aspects of collecting passiflora. Even when you think you have been successful, it can turn out you were wrong. I pollinated my lady margaret this past summer with incarnata. I had over 20 fruits form, and was so very excited. I babied those little guys, just to open them up and find 5 viable seeds in all 20 fruit. lol I keep a little spreadsheet on my successes, failures and in processes. I have tried pollinating my lutea with a few dicots, but have had no success. I would have to pull my records to give you the specifics, but I too think it just might not be possible.
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